and we've spent a lot of time talking about grover norquist, another person out of government in the mind of everyone serving in government. and that is a way to make change. >> ryan, we talked about the heritage foundation. and if he is going to be an activist, is heritage the right place to go? senator demint is the one who said if we're able to stop obama on the affordable care act, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. the idea for an individual mandate which is the centerpiece of the affordable care act was birthed at the heritage foundation. >> right. but i think jim demint can kind of shape the heritage foundation to his political will. and the fact that he is able to go to the heritage foundation actually says a lot about where the two parties are on the spectrum. you could never imagine a democratic senator the equivalent of demint. you know, you couldn't imagine somebody like bernie sanders, for instance. you couldn't imagine him going to run the center for progress there is too much daylight between the establishment in washington and the kind of left wing of the dem